Two Spiritual Experiences, Pre-Enlightenment
I had two meaningful experiences before self-realization, and although they were powerful, they had no lasting effect. And they had no logical explanation at the time, until after my enlightenment, when I was able to analyze them. I was classically trained by good mentors, so I heeded their advice by ignoring the signs and I continued my spiritual pursuit. I feel they are important to talk about since they are identical in nature, and the same or similar experience most likely happened to other seekers, which might steer them to the wrong conclusion or direction. These are milestones on the path and should inspire you to dial it up a notch from a sense of acknowledgement, and not inspire complacence from feeling special. I would’ve never figured out what happened, if it wasn’t for my own self-realization, and it would’ve been a mistake to try, but now, I know.
Both of these events happened during meditation and although my body didn’t move one inch it felt like I was moving all over the room. Doing eight foot loops that took me through the walls, furniture, and ceiling like they weren’t there, as if I was in some sort of short and fast Ferris wheel. The loop was small and quick in the body, and bigger and slower at its peak, which was beyond the ceiling. I’m a lucid dreamer and I have clocked tons of time flying through my dreams, and this was more real and lifelike than that could ever be, and it was completely bitch black. After about eight or so loops, a thought popped up and I was grounded again in the body, which hadn’t changed position. The same thing happened to me another time in some old motel in San Francisco, however a thought crept in early; “I don’t want to die in this dirty old place” and I was grounded again. The feeling is so unique and undeniably weird because it shakes you internally, but doesn’t affect the body and mind at all. You come back to the same old life and wonder what the hell happened, what’s going on with me, how and where do I file this experience. My teacher's words kept surfacing telling me to forget it and keep going, so I did. Any temporary experience that has no explanation nor delivers any real peace or answers has no value to me. I was determined, my goal was set and death was my only release from that goal, so whether it’s the end or scary, you still have to be free from all gripping or hanging on. After that, any chance I got, I had to be ready, because I was knocking at the door of Eternity, I had to be completely unguarded and open for anything. It eventually happened, and it delivers answers, not questions, and it lays you straight and in tune, and you’ll have not a single doubt about what just happened.
Later upon analyzing my spiritual experiences I was able to discern what had happened. Those two previous experiences were near misses, because my ability to completely surrender wasn’t mature enough, I was still attached to my life, mind and body. My perceiving point in consciousness (life) did let go (surrender) of perceiving externally, and I wasn’t willing to give up completely without insurances. Almost letting go isn’t enough, but when it did happen, I fell back close to my normal point of perception, which is in the Soul and rebounded back. I still hadn’t relinquished my grip on consciousness, so a yoyo effect started between the universe of consciousness or my connection to the body/mind, and the universe of Eternity, which is the Soul perceiving point. When you're at the Soul perceiving point witout the universe, you are in Eternity and perceiving Absolute Space, and when that point is reflected in consciousness (energy) you perceive the world. You can’t see both, nor can you be both at the same time, its either one or the other, and I was stuck oscillating between the two. Giving in for a second before fear drew me back; I got caught up in a “catch 22” with a simple release mechanism called the mind. A busy mind grounds you to this world and stands in the way of your spiritual progress, so silencing the mind is the key. I thought I was ready, but my whipping around the room was telling me I wasn’t, and in fact the big looping was only inches, if that, instead of feet. Taking in consideration our actual size being that of a dot, which makes the inch between perceiving points seem like a huge distance, and really the size and distance might actually be smaller or larger than that. I was only traveling from one witnessing point, being at the back of the brain, to the Eternal focal point, which is in stillness nearby. It wasn’t the real me that was moving only my point of perception was moving, and since I hadn’t totally surrendered, I was going for a ride, on and with my attention. To see Eternity you withdraw your attention away from observing or feeling through the senses, so you can see through the self (Soul) in a feelingless and movementless space. Anything that has to do with energy has to be shunned completely by the Self, or some type of shaking between points, involving energy will occur. It could be any size loop and result in a low level vibration instead of the big ovals, which I experienced. This is what happens during most spiritual experiences, and on a lower level there is spiritual experiences that happen more frequent, which the mind produces.
You are truly an "Inspiration" to me and my readers!
Hugs, Lily S.
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Hi Lily,
Thanks for the wonderful response. I’m so happy that someone is benefiting from my site and actually passing on the word. You have a beautiful web site, and I appreciate your zeal and commitment to understanding spirituality.
Your Friend on the Web,
Kurt
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Hi Kurt,
I was led to you this morning and have been reading your insights. They have been a huge comfort to me at a time when I need it. Thank you so much.
I feel compelled to comment on your article above. There are not many people I can talk to about my own experiences. Years ago when I was meditating regularly, I was able to consciously leave my body. At first, a woman guide would be there and she taught me the differences between being in and out of the body. For example, there is nothing of substance in that state so I could fly right through walls and ceilings. It was all very humourous, we laughed together as I automatically ducked when I encountered electrical lines or misjudged my "landing" and flew right into the ground and came back up sputtering and terrified. Once I became comfortable with this phase, another guide came to me. He took me to various scenarios and it wasn't until years later that I realized that he was showing me what THIS life really was. I remember flying over a desert with our Light shining in front of us and there were holes in the ground below. Each time our Light touched on the edge of a hole, the dirt would pile up to keep the Light out. He told me that these were people, hiding from the Light. Sometimes he would leave me in nightmarish dream scenes, teaching me that there is no death and nothing was real. When I got caught up in it, he would come in and rescue me, telling me that it was all an illusion but proving to me how easy it was to forget it wasn't real. What I was told to do was go in and wake people up from these nightmares but I always managed to forget and ended up doing what everyone else was doing. Once I was shot and as I lay there "dying" he approached me and looked down at me and couldn't help but laugh. I had forgot that in this state, no harm could ever come to me. Death does not exist. I sat up and we had a good laugh together.
Damon came for me every night and off we would fly. Sometimes for a "hands on" lesson, other times he took me to a great temple where I went through several initiation ceremonies. These were very sacred, the souls there were celebrating my progress. But then life took hold and I moved away from this spiritual path and became immersed in the Illusion. I tried to hold onto both but the Illusion won me over for a while.
Tragedy struck and I am once again on my spiritual path. And looking back I realize that Damon was trying to teach me about this Illusion we are stuck in HERE. I knew at the time that I was NOT dreaming that I was flying without my body. That was very real. I have had lucid dreams and I know the difference. I know when I am leaving my body and I also know when I jump back in. Not too long ago, I was excited to realize that I was standing in my bedroom, FREE! But because I was out of practice, fear struck me and I immediately jumped back in.
Thanks for sharing your experiences and insights, Kurt
Janis
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Dear Janis,
I enjoyed reading your post. That’s an amazing experience and one of the different stages in spirituality. Your learning a new way to think, gaining a new perspective on things, and leaving old limiting patterns aside is giving you a new sense of freedom. I am so glad you brought this up, because all kinds of spiritual experiences happen like this to people, and it’s an important learning experience. I had similar experiences, not as elaborate, but just as unusual and fun, and something positive and productive can come from it.
And, it seems like you got some amazing lessons in detachment and new ways of perceiving life.
There are ways to tell the difference between an out of body experience, and the different dream dimensions. I know it feels different from a dream because in a sense it is, but it probably has some basic similarities to dreams. One way you can tell is, if the whole experiences is familiar to dreaming, as appose to your normal waking state, and there are definite differences between the two. Does your experience resemble the dream environment, where it’s more surreal, being more dreamy than everyday life. For instance even though the flying feels real in a vision, it would feel completely different if it was a matter of fact, and you were falling through real wind and real space, flopping around in real gravity. Not that it should be exactly like that, but I think you would say it is less like that, and more like the dream world.
I hope you understand that I’m not trying to down play your spiritual experiences. As a matter of fact it is a really good indication that your Spirit is surfacing and wants more, craving more information, more facts, more unity, more freedom, and liberation from worldly fears and limitations is the dangling carrot. I do know this sort of dream world and the different ways it behaves, and in exploring further, which I hope you will, I found out it was me creating the other people out of fear and desire, and my alter ego or subconscious was working through them. If you can remember this during the vision they will ether suddenly vanish, or you will have silenced them, then you can order them around and out of the dream.
Real out of body experiences have a heavy stamp of reality on it, that resembles more life like conditions, which separates it from dreaming, or the mind and body visions. It’s really hard to explain, I’m a Lucid Dreamer too, and I am a frequent flyer as well, or to use my teacher words, Astral Traveler, and your getting close to that now. An Astral traveler has total control over the dimension their in, without the controlling subconscious directing them. I think you were caught in-between lucid and regular dreaming, blurring the lines, because you weren’t ready for total freedom yet, so guided freedom became available, until your able to remember on your own, and do it out of trust and not fear.
When these two experiences happened to me in my post, they had a reality feel to them that was beyond dreaming, like this is it, no doubt about it, I’m going to die, unless I react now. Really scary, and when you let the mind in with all that fear your grounded immediately and it’s all over. It was like, I was trying to totally separate my Self from the body and mind, and it was too real, and too scary, the connection was severing, so I’d better do something quick before its to late. Because to leave that behind had the ingrained understanding that I was loosing all of my primary senses for good, and enter a dimension without forms and their visions, where only Awareness can go…. And, now that Death is approaching the grosser attachments to forms and their connected illusions are being discharged, your now ready to enter the unknown…..Yea, right, I wasn’t ready to nonchalantly throw it away like that, for something unknown, so I was caught up a in-between state.
Thank you dear Janis for your post
P.S. beautiful website, loved the pictures, your a very good photographer. Brings up some memories of Wisconsin, where I spent the first 18 years of my life. J Thanks again. Kurt
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Hi Kurt,
Thanks for responding to my post. And thanks for visiting my website. I've recently been compelled to paint my photos so I have been learning to oil paint. As for snow, you can have some of ours! We are supposed to have blizzard conditions this weekend! Funny to say that while living in sunny southern California. I'm up in the mountains.
I appreciate your thoughts on my experiences. One thing I know, they were not dreams. It was as real as I am sitting here, fully conscious and as awake as I am now. (Which is funny because THIS is a dream that I am convinced is reality - I have fleeting moments when I am fully aware of that).
When leaving my body, things look similar - I can see my bedroom and my house, the neighborhood. (Until my guide would take me to another place.) But it's slightly different. At first I usually don't know I'm out of body until I try to turn on a light switch. That doesn't work! And if I can get past the initial FEAR that strikes me, knowing that I am out, then I can move about freely and "fly". In this state, there are no limitations. Like another dimension. But because I am so used to the 3D of this place, it took some time to detach from that.
Also, when I do jump back in because of the fear, it is very difficult to wake myself up. It feels like I am drugged and I'm struggling to get all the way back in body because of my fear. It's not like waking up from a dream. I am fully conscious of this struggle.
Perhaps it was an extension of this place, another level. But the message was quite clear. This is not real. Like Jesus walking on water. The only thing that keeps us from that kind of freedom is the notion that we are in a BODY.
Funny that you are from Wisconsin. That holds a lot of meaning for me. But like they say, everything happens for a reason. It certainly got my attention.
Your writings really hit home with me. They are just what I am trying to grasp now. I struggle with my thoughts daily and am trying to remember to stay in the moment of NOW.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and knowledge. It is very helpful.
Janis
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Yea, I know, and I know what your talking about, and even though you don’t believe me, but for the sake of other readers I would like to add this.
I liked it when used the word 3 dimensional, maybe it will help. This dimension of the universe is the 3rd, or 3d one. The 2nd is 2 dimensional one and what I call the dream state, because of its 2d effect, and although it has many layers all the way to the after-death state and on, I still call it the dream state. The next and finale, or the original level is the 1st dimension, where all is One.
When you die or leave the body on the 3d level it will be smacked with 3d phenomenon, with the senses, mind and body breaking down, or severed and gone, it will have a heavy influence of life coming to an end. On the other hand dieing or so called leaving the body in the dream state will have a lot of 2d phenomenon happening, emotions, fear, shadow less, no light switches that work the way you want to, different, but it will feel real, like you said, yet its only similar, which means its your take on it, your world. When you do leave the body for real, you will know beyond anything that the 2d level of leaving the body can expose you to, that this is real, real death, real pain, real loss of consciousness. I know the difference because I went through it first hand, and when you leave your body, you’ll be aware of it too, but you‘ll be dead then, I died then, enlightenment is to leave the body and go beyond, and death is the only way out. Death is a radical transformation, and full of radical sensations that separate it from anything else, and leaving the body means to visit death, and partake in that radical transformation.
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I think I understand what you are saying Kurt. This has been interesting! It brings to mind people who have talked about NDEs. My experience is similar except for the bright light they all seem to see. I will have to think about that one. I so enjoy your patience in explaining this and appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us.
Love & Light
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Thank you Kurt and Janis. This was very new and interesting.
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I've hard to people who have been able to “leave” their body once they reached a certain stage of deep meditation! Starting with yoga, you go through different levels of “asana” and after a certain stage it is possible that you can live outside your body!! It takes a lot of concentration and willpower to reach this stage and once you have attained the “spiritual pre enlightenment”, it gives you the strength and patience which will help you to take anything in your stride as you have attuned yourself to give up the materialistic way for life!!
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Thank you Kurt and Janis. This was very new and interesting.
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